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Donna: Oh, my goodness, Charlie. Wow, that was some break, wasn’t it?

Charlie: Yes.

Donna: Yes, you heard it here first, folks. What you got for me today, Bud?

Charlie: I have five tracks for you.

Donna: Hand them over. Are we just going to jump into this, Charlie?

Charlie: Might as well.

Donna: Might as well. You ready to smash some pumpkins?

Charlie: Well, it is almost October.

Donna: Cause it’s October. Wait, is it October? No, it’s not. It’s September. It’s almost October.

Charlie: It is Fall, though.

Donna: It is Fall. I did have a pumpkin spice latte today. It’s here. It is here to stay. Do not make fun of me. I hear you all. I can feel the glares on the back of my neck. I love pumpkin spice, OK?

Charlie: That’s fine.

Donna: Thank you. I feel understood by you, Charlie. Thank you so much.

Charlie: Ohh, no problem. Thanks for having me.

Donna: You’re so welcome.

Song Plays: The Smashing Pumpkins – Rhinoceros

Charlie: I love this album, but this is one of my favorite songs.

Donna: You know what, I’m actually kind of surprised that you picked this song and put it on your list.

Charlie: Why is that?

Donna: Because I feel like I know how much you love the rhythm that the drums facilitate and I know how much it means to you to be able to delve into the technicalities of that, and this song is just like on the opposite spectrum of everything else that’s on your list. So, can you talk a little bit more as to why that is?

Charlie: Well, Jimmy Chamberlain right here. He’s a badass at drums and this song, in particular, really spoke to me. I really like the groove of it. It’s kind of mellow. As a drummer listening to his playing, there’s a lot of little things he does, a lot of finesse you could say. Little details that you might not notice if you’re not paying attention or if you don’t play. Yeah, I used to try to cover this song when I was first starting out. I actually played this my senior year in a class. It was History of Rock ’n’ Roll. The teacher was the band director and also played drums. So, at the end of the year, he would set up his drum set in the band room and accept covers. He would try to play along to a song, but then he’d ask the class if anyone wanted to play a cover. So, I volunteered and played along to this. It was pretty cool. I think I did OK, probably didn’t, but in my mind, I did OK.

Donna: Well, you got to cut yourself some slack because you seem to be doing pretty OK now, right?

Charlie: Yeah. Well, I never stopped. I guess, you know?

Donna: I think that’s half the battle, honestly. Never stopping. Never stop stopping, never stop, never stopping?

Charlie: Right. Keep on. Keep on keeping on.

Donna: Isn’t that a movie? I think it’s a movie. Andy Samberg, anybody? No. Anyways, so, is that where you fell in love with drums when you were in high school, or did it happen way before that?

Charlie: It happened a little bit before that. Probably around eight or so.

Donna: What was it in particular about drums that really caught your ear? Did your parents play a lot of drum-heavy music in the house, or what was it in particular that seemed special to you about the instrument?

Charlie: You know that I did get a lot of exposure… my parents and brothers and sisters. They played a lot of cool music when I was growing up. All sorts of genres, and I kind of liked a little bit of all of it. Honestly, one of the first drum tracks that really stood out to me was actually not Smashing Pumpkins, but Jimi Hendrix with Mitch Mitchell. That’s coming up, so we’re going to get into that. Besides that, it was really just a…I don’t know. The drums just stood out to me when I would listen to music when I was younger.

Donna: Would it be safe to say that this song, in particular, wasn’t the standout song from when you were a kid, but this was from when you were like a teen. You were a little more mature. Perhaps one of the songs that kept you going?

Charlie: Yeah. When I started playing, definitely. What’s weird is the first time I touched a drum set I was about eight years old, and then I didn’t touch a drum set again for like five years or something, but I knew I wanted to play based off that first time. It was like everything kind of made sense, you know? I had been given a guitar for my birthday when I was eight or nine. I tried to play it. I would strum some chords and that was alright, but I don’t know, it didn’t speak to me. So, when I first played the drum set, and it was just a kick, snare and the ride, I did a very basic drumbeat, but it still made sense to me, you know? Your foot goes like that for the kick drum. This is the snare. So yeah, all that made sense.

Donna: Oh, so would you say that it was almost… I don’t know if you believe in past lives, do you?

Charlie: Shoot. Yeah, sometimes.

Donna: Sometimes, good enough! Would you say that when you sat at a drum set it’s like you already knew what everything was? Did you have that, like, almost inherited past life knowledge?

Charlie: Yeah, sort of, I guess. Yeah, it was just kind of funny. It wasn’t like I already knew. It’s like I had to sit down first, and then when I hit the kick drum and the snare, I guess you could say I got reminded. It was like, “Oh, yeah, that’s what that is,” you know? And I was like, “Oh, right.” That’s the sounds that you hear.

Donna: So how long did you play as an eight year old to be able to have this familiarity a handful of years later?

Charlie: I just played once; it was one time.

Donna: And he says it’s not a past life regression…

Charlie: I was just hanging out with my dad and my grandpa.

Donna: That’s incredible.

Donna: Oh, my gosh. Going back even further than The Smashing Pumpkins, we have this Jimi Hendrix song that I actually also really enjoyed. Jimi is incredible, especially his live tapes. But yeah, tell me, what in here influenced you as a child?

Song Plays: Jimi Hendrix – If 6 Was 9

Donna: And what did you, in particular, take out of it into your playing as an adult?

Charlie: Well, this song, drum-wise, it’s really cool because you know that this high-hat part right here is very jazzy. So, it was cool how Mitch Mitchell added jazz-inspired drum licks to what was a new genre of psychedelic rock at the time.

Donna: Yeah.

Charlie: I thought that was a really cool combination of sounds. My grandpa plays jazz. Or he used to play jazz. I grew up listening to jazz when I was hanging out with him. So, I thought it was really interesting. But it was the track “Fire” from the Jimi Hendrix Experience that really was the first time I was like, “Whoa, the drums could actually… it’s not just the backbeat, it could actually be very integral to the song.” You know, how active they could be. So that’s when I fell in love with the Jimi Hendrix Experience. I was listening to “Fire,” but I didn’t want to pick that song because I thought everyone knows that one. So, I wanted to pick one that is a little less common but very interesting because it’s one of the jazzier drum parts that Mitch played during the Experience. And this is just, you know, it’s just Jimi talking shit about the establishment. Like, there’s so many cool things about this song, but then it goes into this really cool part. The bass line is grooving, you know. So, when I first heard this as a little kid, it just kind of took my imagination on a journey, you know, and this was before I started smoking weed heavily. So, it was just, like, a natural fucking… you know what I mean? So that was just the power of music and the young imagination. So, I don’t know. It just like made me want to play, you know? I’m like, “Man, I wanna do that.”

Donna: Yeah, yeah. No, I totally agree. I think it’s incredible how Jimi was able to allow his collaborators to be featured on all of his songs as well. It’s like he wasn’t always at the forefront of all his tracks. He allowed everyone else to shine as well.

Charlie: Yeah, he specifically wanted to play with Mitch Mitchell. He called him his Elvin Jones. Elvin Jones was a badass jazz drummer who played with John Coltrane. He’s on all the Coltrane albums, but yeah, so you know, he knew what he was doing. That’s the cool connection that bands have. People play with each other for a reason and have this connection that works out and then, you know, do some cool shit like this.

Donna: So how did you, in particular, get to meeting the people that you play with now? Can you remind us all which two bands you play with?

Charlie: Oh yeah, one of them is called The Silvertone. One’s called Urgent Care.

Donna: Awesome.

Charlie: Yeah, there’s a couple of others, but they’re more like side things. But these are like my go-to’s.

Donna: Yeah. How did you meet everyone? The band members, like what was your trajectory into playing with both of those bands?

Charlie: So, with Silvertone, I met our lead guy, Freddie, he kind of approached me and he had seen me play before and had asked me to come jam. We set it up, and I went over. We had a jam session. Ended up recording a few demos for songs that would later become songs for The Silvertone. We just went from there. It turned into the jam session that turned into a band. We had a few line-up changes but eventually found the right group of guys. We’ve been going ever since.

Donna: What about Urgent Care?

Charlie: With Urgent Care, we actually used to play together. They were in another band called The Big Nothing, and I used to play with them pretty often with the other band I was in at the time. We befriended each other and outside of playing shows with each other, we ended up all playing in another group. Another local group called Typical Oregon, which are some friends of ours. Shout out to John.

Donna: So, do you feel that all of you guys draw upon similar influences in terms of your music?

Charlie: Yeah. So, I like a bunch of different styles of music. So, with Urgent Care, the music that they like, it’s a lot different from the music that my friends in Silvertone like. But because I like the different styles of music it works out when we’re playing music together, you know?

Donna: Yeah, because this one, in particular, this is a little bit more niche to being a drummer.

Song Plays: Tony Williams – Fred

Charlie: Oh yeah, Tony Williams.

Donna: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Do you find that any of your bandmates resonate with him as much as you do?

Charlie: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Maybe not in Urgent Care, but in Silvertone, yeah. This is like jazz fusion from like the 70s. It’s very nerdy music. If you’re listening to jazz fusion, you’re a nerd, you know? So, if you don’t know this song there’s a reason why. You’re not a nerd. It’s cool. But Tony Williams, he’s… I mean, yeah, with an album cover like this like, you know, this guy’s got to be a badass… and probably a nerd. You know what I mean? You’re in drumline and all that shit. This guy played with Miles Davis when he was like 16/17, to give you an idea of how good he is.

Donna: Wow, that’s incredible. What is the technical aspect of Tony’s playing that you think is the coolest thing?

Charlie: Well, this song he’s doing like, a swing like tss-ch-ts-tss-ch-ts-tss-ch-ts-tss, like fast as fuck first of all, but then he’s combining that with a rock beat. Actually, it’s kind of breakbeat-y. So, he’s doing that and then doing all these ridiculous fills in between. He’s doing leading drums. This song goes for a little journey.

Donna: When I first heard this song, as well as the next one that we’re going to play, I was very impressed at how they went about structuring an entire instrumental piece around to the drums, in particular. What do you feel is the most important element for musicians to keep in mind when they are focusing on building a composition around a single instrument?

Charlie: As the drummer, it’s the bass. The bass, that’s the foundation. The bass is playing that groove.

Donna: Well, in this part of the song, in particular, it sounds like he’s doing a duet with the keys. So how do you feel about the intention in this portion of the music?

Charlie: Well, he’s definitely comping with the keys. And the bass is there laying down that nice groove so that the drums and the keys could go a little wild and complement each other. As a drummer, I’m always paying attention to the bass. When I let loose, I’m always listening to the bass to make sure I’m going to come back on the 1. I imagine that’s what Tony was doing.

Donna: It’s so interesting to me how so many bands omit the bassist. Like if it’s a small band, usually it’ll be like a drummer and a guitarist and a vocalist and then they’ll just, like, throw the bassist out. It’s so funny to me that people do that.

Charlie: I always think that’s fucking stupid. Don’t get me wrong, it works. You know, White Stripes, Black Keys, whatever. But…

Donna: Yeah, but in your opinion, the bassist is crucial, right? Yeah.

Charlie: It’s so fucking empty without bass. I’ve literally cancelled band practices because the bassist can’t make it. I’m like, “What? You can’t make it?”

Donna: Hey, you got your standard, that’s good.

Charlie: I’m like, “I don’t want to make that drive; we’ll meet up another time.” Yeah. I can’t do it. It’s hard to get into it. I need that low-end.

Donna: Right. Yeah, absolutely. I think the bassist is definitely a super underrated part of the collective.

Charlie: I’m not just saying that because my dad plays bass. I love bass.

Donna: I actually I realized recently, this is a little irrelevant, but I’m going to say it anyways, whenever there is a female bassist on stage, there’s like a 90% chance I’m going to have a crush on them. I do not know what it is about a girl with a bass.

Charlie: I’m the same way.

Donna: I don’t know what it is. You know what, though? I love that you feel that the bassist has something really important to donate to the partnership with the drums because I feel like people don’t often talk about that. There are so many bands out there, especially nowadays, that you would consider a guitar band, right? Like all the music is focused on the guitar solos, everything is built around the guitar and the vocals…

Charlie: There is a nasty guitar solo going on currently…

Donna: Well, I mean, you gotta, right? You gotta appease the folks.

Charlie: Guitar is important, but I see what you mean. It gets a little too much of the credit sometimes.

Donna: Yeah. And so, remind me one more time, your grandfather was a jazz musician you mentioned. Correct?

Charlie: Yeah, sax and keys.

Donna: Heck yeah! And you never thought about going into brass or wind?

Charlie: No, they didn’t speak to me. I like it, though.

Donna: Because when I think of jazz, I always think of a trumpet or a saxophone. I feel like it’s not a jazz combo without one of those. For me at least, but also, I’m a sucker for wind and brass.

Charlie: Oh, OK. Yeah. I mean, you know, it depends on what you’re looking for, right? There’s a lot of good jazz combos and no brass. I always like the organ trio. Guitar, organ and bass or something.

Donna: All right, let’s hop on over to David Axelrod. Let’s go, folks.

Song Plays: David Axelrod – Song of Innocence

Charlie: So, the cool thing about this song, if anyone’s ever seen “The Wrecking Crew,” that’s who’s the band on this album, a bunch of studio musicians in the 60s who were on a lot of the albums at that time. On a lot of our favorite tunes from the 60s if anyone’s into that.

Donna: Yeah!

Charlie: I’m a big fan of this drummer. This is Earl Palmer. He had a really nasty groove that I continue to be inspired by. I probably copy him the most, honestly. If you ever hear me play it probably sounds like a very cheap watered-down Earl Palmer, but I’m doing my best. I’m getting there.

Donna: So far we’ve been talking a lot about drummers and drumming techniques that you prefer, but are there any fads in the drum world that you cannot get on board with?

Charlie: No, I don’t know. No, I guess not.

Donna: Would you say that there is space for everything?

Charlie: Yeah, you know…

Donna: Or would you say there are some exceptions as to how far some musicians should go in terms of their innovation, the gimmicks that they use?

Charlie: Oh no, there’s definitely no limit. It’s just kind of like what you’re going for, you know? What are you in the mood to listen to? Do you want to listen to something more relaxed and minimal? Do you want to listen to something like this that is kind of a bigger production and might be a little more busy? Or do you want to go even further than listening to people soloing, doing creative shit that might be unlistenable on a daily basis? Sometimes you’re in the mood for people pushing the limits of what you’re able to do on instruments.

Donna: Is there a musician that is active now that you feel has been pushing those limits? Perhaps a band? Because I know all the songs that we’re playing, they’re more influences on your playing, right? Are there any bands right now who you feel are doing some really great innovative things? Perhaps drummers that stand out to you?

Charlie: Yeah, I mean, I’m a big fan of Nate Smith, he’s really cool. Makaya McCraven…Shoot. It’s hard to say. I feel like there’s too many to mention when I get asked a question like that.

Donna: Top three or just three that come to mind?

Charlie: Well, after the two I just mentioned. Shoot, man. I can’t say honestly. Yeah, I’m sorry. I can’t think of one. There’s too many.

Donna: That’s OK. Well…

Charlie: I go to so many shows, and I see amazing drummers. Sometimes I never get their name, but yeah, I’m constantly inspired by different people. So, it’s hard to say. Sorry.

Donna: No, don’t be sorry. I mean, to be fair though, I think there’s space for everybody in terms of the things that you create. The music industry is so vast, and there are as many different types of listeners as there are bands out there, and I strongly believe that. I think it’s very graceful of you to be able to give people space to be able to express themselves in whatever way you feel they should without putting any limits on it. I think that’s a very great way to look at it.

Charlie: Ohh yeah, there’s different ways to go about music. That’s why we have all these different genres, you know? So sometimes you just got to play to that genre. Like, if it’s going to sound a certain way, there’s a certain way to play it, to get that authentic sound, if you will.

Donna: Right.

Charlie: So yeah, I appreciate different forms of people’s styles when they’re playing whatever genre of music that the band is.

Donna: I will say I think this is one of my favorite songs on your list, actually.

Song Plays: Bernard Purdie – Soul Drums

Donna: Well, I guess I can’t really call it a song. Instrumental track?

Charlie: Yeah. Well, no, it’s a song. This is the great Bernard Purdie. If anyone ever breakdanced, I’m sure you know this. But look at this album cover. Doesn’t he look so happy? Like, that’s how you should look when you’re playing any instrument. That’s how I want to look when I play drums. You just want to have the fucking best time of your life. What I love about Bernard is when you listen to what he’s playing he means that shit. And he’s doing it with the biggest smile you’ve ever seen. That’s what’s so fucking cool. Yeah, but that’s what I love about this song. It’s the nastiest groove. This band is killing it. And he’s just yelling.

Donna: He’s feeling it!

Charlie: Nasty. Yeah, I love it. It’s beautiful.

Donna: Yeah. I really love soul music that speaks a lot to me. I love that there’s a different type of intensity that’s in soul music, right? Because I feel like drums are that heartbeat to a song, and bass is like the pulse. Or at least that’s how I’m going to describe it.

Charlie: Oh, fuck yeah.

Donna: I love the way that soul really enhances the pulse, so to speak. You know, it’s very abstract, but I hope you guys get what I’m talking about.

Charlie: And, if any of you out there aren’t feeling the urge to dance, why? I wanna dance.

Donna: You know, I feel like it’s not often that we, or at least me… my focus a lot of the time is on bands that are up and coming. So, I don’t often get to sit down and listen to instrumental music. I think that I’m missing out is what I’m starting to realize by talking to you right now because there’s so much out there that is like, ambient in a way that is more constructive than what the word ambient might imply, if that makes sense. I mean, I know, of course you’re listening to this very differently as a drummer yourself, right? So, this is going to speak a different language to you, but for us plebs out here, I feel like there’s so much to learn from the vibe that instrumental music provides.

Charlie: Oh well, right now you’re just hearing this guy just having fucking fun in the studio. That’s why I like this song. They really recorded a song where there’s like two minutes of just drums at the end. I don’t know. I think that’s cool because I don’t think it was done like that too often. So, it’s just one of those things where like, as a drummer, you gotta know shit like this, you know?

Donna: Yeah, one of the things I love about working with musicians in general is that there’s this unspoken language in the band, right? It’s like someone can start a beat and then all of a sudden, three minutes later, there’s a full song happening with all the full accompaniment of every member of the band. For a lot of people, instrumental music is something that almost seems inaccessible. What would you say to someone who is trying to delve into the instrumental music sector, but is kind of confused and overwhelmed? What would you recommend? How would you recommend for them to listen?

Charlie: Well, I mean, if you’re used to hearing a vocal melody and people singing, think of the lead instrument as the vocal melody. Basically, if you love hip-hop and rap and you listen to jazz, the rapper is the saxophone going off. Or it’s the piano player taking the solo. That’s who’s taking the verse right now. Those are the bars. So yeah, just switch how you’re listening to it, and it might make more sense. Not that it doesn’t make sense to you, but it might make you enjoy it more.

Donna: Well, you know, sometimes it takes a minute to be able to listen to something new, and there has to be that moment of being able to process the new information, and then all of a sudden, it’ll click. And you’ll be able to enjoy it anew.

Charlie: Yeah, exactly. And if not, that’s cool too, you know? You don’t have to like shit that you don’t like. I guess maybe at least try it out.

Donna: Yeah, I definitely agree with that. I think it’s important to try listening to everything because, from my perspective, it’s so important to be able to listen to something and attempt to understand why somebody else might like it, right? I feel like that creates so much more understanding in terms of the people that you’re surrounded by, and what their musical preferences are, and when they’re looking at something from a more technical perspective, or maybe a sentimental one, right? Because that plays a huge part as well.

Charlie: Definitely.

Donna: Well, fabulous, Charlie. Thank you so much for joining us here today!