RECORDS LiVE

Donna: Hello and good evening, everybody. Welcome to RECORDS LiVE. This is our 4th show. Amazing, you guys, I am so excited to be here. So let’s go ahead and welcome my friend Andrew out here, because… There he is, always so timely. Give him a round of applause, everybody. Hello. Hi, my love. Ohh. Thank you. Comes bearing gifts.

Andrew: I did bring this.

Donna: Oh yeah, my favorite. Thank you.

Andrew: Hey, what’s up?

Donna: I am insanely stoked to dive into some of Andrew’s faves today.

Andrew: I’m also extremely excited,

Donna: Exuberant!

Andrew: Exuberantly excited. An exclamation.

Donna: An exclamation he is “exclamation excited.”

Andrew: Yeah.

Donna: Fabulous. You know what? We’re just going to dive right into the classics here, off top. You can’t go wrong with The Beatles, y’all. Right? You know, some people don’t like them.

Song Plays: The Beatles – Martha My Dear

Andrew: Yes. Yes.

Donna: But what do you have to say about that?

Andrew: I honestly don’t trust somebody who doesn’t like The Beatles, but also I thought that I’m just going to choose the things that I definitely like. I’m not trying to impress anybody. I’m not trying to show my amazing music taste. It’s just the good meat and potatoes of what I love.

Donna: Yeah, we love meat and potatoes. Yeah.

Andrew: Me too. I don’t eat as much meat as I used to, but yes.

Donna: Honestly, me either. I don’t eat it at all anymore. It’s the veggies and potatoes.

Andrew: It’s the veggies and potatoes…the good stuff.

Donna: Well, what do you feel is the good stuff about “Martha My Dear?”

Andrew: Well, for a long time, I thought “Martha My Dear” was about his dog. Which is this beautiful sheep dog, and I just recently found out it is also partially about Jane Asher, who he definitely cheated on and got caught up with. But also, this songwriting and the harmony and the music and the song the production is the meat and potatoes of The Beatles. You can learn so much about music theory just in the song, and that’s what I really enjoy about it.

Donna: How long did it go by that you loved this song and then realized it was no longer about a dog?

Andrew: Today. Yeah. I just wanted to make sure I knew my shit a little bit, and if I didn’t then I could go on with my life, I guess.

Donna: We gotta know the truth.

Andrew: Yeah, we have to. We have to know what’s up with Paul McCartney and his personal life.

Donna: Yeah, absolutely.

Andrew: I used to raid my brother’s CD collection. He had this big old CD magazine and this was it. This was the song. The whole record was great, but this was it for me.

Donna: Based on what you had originally thought about the song and what it is actually about, and given your history and attachment to the music, does that change the meaning of the song for you at all?

Andrew: A little bit. I guess I would really love to write about my Dogg. And I love and I miss my dog very fondly, you know? I think I would write a song about him at some point, but it doesn’t really change how I feel about the way he wrote this. It’s perfect. It’s a perfect song.

Donna: Do you tend to be more of a analytical guy when it comes to music, or do you just really like the feeling of it?

Andrew: This was a feeling thing for a long time. I still have yet to learn this song just because I like the mystery of how intense and zany and weird it is.

Donna: When did the music theory appreciation come into play?

Andrew: Like…

Donna: Also today?

Andrew: Yeah. Today, right now. No, it’s probably been like about five years before I was like, whoa, this is… there’s a lot going on here.

Donna: Yeah, you had to let it sink in.

Andrew: Yeah, totally.

Donna: Well, while you wait for others…

Andrew: Yes.

Donna: …to sink in.

Andrew: This is a good segue.

Donna: Which is also the title of the next song.

Song Plays: Grizzly Bear — While You Wait for Others

Andrew: Yeah, I like this, perfect. This is a good record.

Donna: We’re killin’ it. Yeah. Grizzly Bear, man.

Andrew: Grizzly Bear. There’s a lot of musicians and friends here that I constantly talk about Grizzly Bear to, and like it’s probably one of the first things that I ask when I’m about to play music with somebody. Have you listened to Grizzly Bear? Because when you do, I steal everything from Daniel Rossen and I really wish I could sound like him.

Donna: Well, what’s stopping you?

Andrew: Nothing. That’s definitely what I strive to do. Like the tone in this song, he uses this semi hollow guitar and an old amp. This was recorded in some weird castle/ abandoned thing out in the middle of New York. This album is written about an island in Massachusetts. So, it’s a very eastern side of America kind of just weird, mystical land that I want to be in.

Donna: Yeah. So what elements have you currently employed in your recent music that would also be considered unconventional or weird or were extrapolated or inspired by this music?

Andrew: Well, the massiveness of this music is probably what I try to accomplish in one of my songs, “La Llorona,“ and I definitely envisioned like, that’s the intensity that we have to stick with when we’re pushing through this song. It’s got to be big, massive with harmonies and fat guitars. Just such huge guitar sounds.

Donna: Yeah, the hugest.

Andrew: Yes, big strings, big strings.

Donna: The fattest. Big booty guitars.

Andrew: Big booty guitars, big booty bass, big booty drums. Yeah, very dry, dry cymbals. Chris Bear is the drummer for this band, and he’s not a conventional drummer. It’s not Jazz. It’s not Rock. It’s not Jazz Rock. It’s just his own playing with time.

Donna: Yeah, you can really hear the element of playing with time, especially in this music, like there’s almost a logical cacophony of sound, I would say.

Andrew: Yeah… yeah, that’s wow, that’s cool. Can you say that word again?

Donna: Cacophony.

Andrew: Cacophony. Yeah, I know what that word means.

Donna: It’s like an amalgamation, you know.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah an amalgamation. I know what an amalgamation is, but cacophony is new.

Donna: Gold Star, 10 points.

Andrew: Thank you. Yeah, we learn something every day.

Donna: Yeah. You know, thanks to Grizzly Bear.

Andrew: Yeah. Again, I did a little bit of homework today. I’ve listened to this album since I was in high school, but re-listening to the lyrics and kind of hearing his frustration in these lyrics is just like “Yo, I’m pretty sure he’s writing this song to himself.” He’s very frustrated about harping on aspects of music that are going to get in the way of releasing it if you think about this thing too long. So, you might as well just stop worrying about how that compressor is and whatever is that second drum part in the second verse. Like, who cares? Get it out.

Donna: What is usually like a go-to remedy for when you’re feeling that way when you’re writing your own music? Do you rely on your bandmates to help you through those periods of time, or do you like to get a little more introverted and work it out on your own? Because I know you’re part of a lot of projects and I’m sure that brings about a variety of different dynamics as well.

Andrew: Yeah, I think every time I play with a different set of musicians and I play songs that I’m trying to accomplish a certain feeling with, I can’t get frustrated with like “Ohh, it doesn’t sound like how it did five years ago in a basement.” It’s going to sound different every time and you have to just kind of catch the thread and catch the vibe and catch the feeling as it’s coming and be present in the moment. I do a bad job at that sometimes. I get kind of heated but it’s…

Donna: Did there come a breaking point in terms of the way that you approached your music during those frustrating moments that you realized you had to seek out a different way to do things?

Andrew: The thing that I’ve been like focusing more on in the past few months is breathing. Taking a breath is really helpful, but at the same time it also cuts off whatever focus on the wormhole I’m in. If I can take a deep breath and it like, takes me out of the space that I’m in, I can actually just be like “Oh, I’m not where I think I’m at. I’m right here.”

Donna: Yeah, absolutely.

Donna: Up next, this one I feel like is a little bit different than the rest of the tracks that you’ve picked out.

Andrew: Totally.

Song Plays: Jim Sullivan — Rosey

Donna: Jim Sullivan’s “Rosey.” Now this one does actually strike me as a bit of an ode to a love.

Andrew: Yeah. What do you mean by that?

Donna: Yeah. Like an homage in the way that we thought that “Martha My Dear,” was about a dog, but was actually about a person. This is about a person.

Andrew: This is definitely a love song. When you’re listening to the lyrics of this song, he’s very frustrated with how the person that he fancies is on to somebody else who has got his really pretty way of distracting this person and not actually solid for them. It talks about diamonds in her eyes and diamonds in her pocket and I kind of feel like that’s like drugs. I feel like that’s something that’s like “Ohh, you want this little bit of thing that feeds you.” I think that’s where you get the rosiness from. You know, I think you can kind of see that it’s got some influence of like, “Yo, you’re not doing what you should be doing. You’re not with me.”

Donna: Now, would you say that that’s perhaps because good ol’ Jim was under the influence of some drugs when he wrote it, so he’s imagining all this happening, or do you think that he thinks that this is actually reality? It’s facts?

Andrew: No, I could see him being on some stuff at the time especially if you know the story of Jim Sullivan. He was struggling as a songwriter and got these records cut with amazing session musicians at Capital [Records]. And then sat on the record. He put it out later, but then he went out and left his family. He’s like, “Yeah, I’m going to, like, head to Nashville. I’ll see you in a few months,” and disappeared. A lot of people think that he got abducted by aliens because this album is called “UFO” and he had a severe obsession with aliens. So I think that’s kind of like, “Yeah, you’re probably tripping on something.” I think that probably does add to it, but I also feel like I can understand trying to continuously get somebody’s attention who’s just distracted by pretty things.

Donna: Or maybe they just don’t want you.

Andrew: No, that can’t be it.

Donna: Like bro, just give it up.

Andrew: No. Yeah, it’s probably also that too.

Donna: Poor Jim, man. Jim’s had it rough.

Andrew: He was married. He he had a wife. He had children. It was cool. But yeah, I don’t know if I can speak for him on where he’s coming from. This is just one of the most beautiful songs. I used to walk through Boston listening to this, and it would be raining and I was like going through a breakup at the time, so I was like, “Yes. This is perfect for my life right now. Yes, this is it.”

Donna: This is peak artistry.

Andrew: Yeah. So great, great record. Check out Jim.

Donna: Yeah, also, I’m so fascinated by that look in his eyes on the cover art of the album because I feel like that just adds another layer to the supposed disappearance. You know? It’s like he knew some shit.

Andrew: Yeah. He’s in The X-Files for sure. He’s definitely in The X-Files.

Donna: Well, you know what, Rosey? Forget her.

Andrew: That’s right. Forget Rosey, if you can.

Donna: Move over Rosey.

Andrew: This is cool. I really like your record player. It’s so awesome.

Donna: Thank you.

Song Plays: Jeff Buckley — Forget Her

Donna: Good old Jeff, man.

Andrew: This song…. This song’s painful. This song wasn’t even actually supposed to be on the record. This came out in the reissue in 2004 and I never listened to Grace when I was younger. I know a lot of people listen to Grace as a teenager but I didn’t until I took a 17-hour bus ride down to Nashville from Boston and this this song was like seven hours of that. There’s things that he uses in the chords that take you out, especially like right here. This is the chorus and when he goes to this third chord, it’s just like, “That’s wrong.” But it’s very right. It’s almost like a siren. It’s like, “Yo, like, wheel me away because she broke my heart.”

Donna: Yeah. You’ve got quite a heartbreak theme going here. Is there something we need to know?

Andrew: Oh, yeah. I’m a double Cancer with a Scorpio moon. So just all the whole entire ocean.

Donna: You’re just bathing in tears.

Andrew: Hell yeah.

Donna: All day long. Sobbing into your pillow. Ocean take me away.

Andrew: Sadness more sadness!

Yeah. So, do you feel like any of that heartbreak mantra translates into the music that you create?

Andrew: Ohh no, no. Most of my music is very like, corporate.

Donna: Is it? Really.

Andrew: No. It’s usually the processing of like… shit. It is the processing of deep emotions and then also like trying to pretty it up so that it doesn’t seem like I’m as insane as I feel sometimes.

Donna: I’ve heard your music and I’m like, “You’re really gonna describe it as corporate?” That really threw me off for a second like, “What is happening?”

Andrew: No, I couldn’t make Starbucks music, but I could try. I feel like some of the songs that I’ve written recently have been like, “Let’s get to the chorus as fast as possible. Let’s get to the thing.” I’ll bring back Paul McCartney…I think that writing songs about love, and literally just that, is OK because like there are people that are too afraid to write about love, so they’ll write about death and crazy shit. I don’t know. I don’t know what they write about.

Donna: What do you think is the payoff in getting to the meat of the song as fast as possible? Or rather, is the chorus the meat of the song?

Andrew: Yeah, it’s the meat, but I think the entire point of music in general is connecting. Like, how do I connect with my audience? How do I connect with my influence? How do I connect with the instrument that I’m playing and connect with myself? I think that’s the whole point of music. I love playing without any lyrics or vocals, but at the same time I think there’s things that need to be said in order to get to the main point of the song, in order to really tug at the heartstrings, tug at the thing.

Donna: Right. In the same way that Jeff over here uses what we would call an unconventional chord structure, what do you feel is your process in terms of including something out of the ordinary into the music? Because I feel like oftentimes, if someone is trying deliberately to create something of that nature, it comes off as contrived and you can hear it being fit into the song as a whole, kind of like fitting a round peg into a square hole. I feel like the audience is always going to know when it’s like a bit of a try-hard song, right? So how do you naturally include these whimsical elements into your music while still keeping it with the organic feel of being a piece of your artistry?

Andrew: I think that would be thinking too much. I think if you can just do in the moment… I don’t believe in writing a song for months on end. I believe in writing a song right then and there, and if you try to go back to it, you’re just trying to force this, “Well, I was feeling like this that day…” And you’ve already processed that. You’ve already gotten through the moment. I think, for Jeff and this song right here, he’s going through the breakup with one of the singers from Cocteau Twins. They did a whole album together, and I think that I could see him processing his own emotion and his own bullshit in that moment. And so, I think that that comes out when you’re writing musically. It’s like you can dress it up however you want, but you have to get to the feeling. You have to get to the point.

Donna: Guess what guys? We’re talking about more ladies.

Andrew: Oh, I like ladies.

Donna: Love ladies.

Andrew: I like songs about ladies.

Song Plays: Unknown Mortal Orchestra — Nadja

Donna: Yeah, me too. Nadja, man.

Andrew: Oh, this is definitely about a lot of ladies. Cool.

Donna: We have a theme, everybody.

Andrew: Yeah. There’s somebody out there that I got to play this song with and I like jamming on this song. This album came out last year, and Unknown Mortal Orchestra has always been my favorite band. But, this song in particular is a love song to him and his wife’s third that they included in their relationship and also in their living situation, along with their children. And then at some point they had a falling out and she lives not in The States. I don’t know where she lives, but he’s reconnecting with her, hearing more about what’s going on in her life and then also like, she’s on to other things now. So, “tell me all about the other girl inside your bed.” This is a perfect verse into the chorus. Then we’re back in. In the second verse, there’s a line right here at the beginning of this that is just like, “This is love.” Where he says “Found a strand of your hair and ate it. Couldn’t throw away this thing you left behind.”

Donna: I feel like I’d vomit.

Andrew: Yeah. No, like I understand wanting to consume somebody to the entire extent. And I want that. And then it’s also like, “Oh, yeah, you got to be chill.” But yeah, like that’s love, that’s obsession.

Donna: Like, is obsession really love though?

Andrew: You need it. Yeah, no, that’s definitely what love… No, I don’t know at this point, so…

Donna: It’s an anomaly, you know?

Andrew: It just feels good. That’s the thing. A little bit of hair gets you through the day.

Donna: I think you got a new product on your hands.

Andrew: Yeah. One of the main core food groups.

Donna: Put it in your protein shakes. It has keratin.

Andrew: Oh god. It has keratin. You’re so right. Wait, so like would you put like flavoring on it or would you put hair product on it?

Donna: Hold on. Hold on. Let’s back it up. OK, I am absolutely fascinated by the fact that we got one, two, three out of your five songs are literally about women, so I want to dig a little bit deeper into that because I’m fascinated by that.

Andrew: Yeah, sure. I am too.

Donna: OK, well the thing is that it’s not even the song titles, but it’s like obviously the themes that they bring about as well, right? Just as a common overarching topic. How does it make sense for you, in thinking about these songs, that you on one hand said earlier that you like to focus on the emotional aspect of the song and the feelings that it brings about, however, you also focus so heavily on the song structure. So which is it? How do those coexist for you in your mind?

Andrew: It’s totally both. It’s like, “What’s the most clever way of telling you I miss you? What’s the most clever way of telling you I need you?” There’s also this logic to songwriting. There is so much sense in it that, at least for me, makes sense the way it does for people who do an equation, they do geometry. It’s like, “Yes, you’re going to get this result.”

Donna: Is that is that because a mentor had previously taught you that this is how you do it, or was that something that you naturally picked up the more that you worked on your own music?

Andrew: It’s both. It’s everybody that I encounter, but my background is that I studied songwriting and music business at Berklee College of Music in Boston. So, you’re studying song structure. You’re studying song form. You’re studying harmony and modal interchange and borrowing chords from other keys and things like that. But also, a lot of these professors are big softies that have been, like, gigging and playing. So they are like “You can emit this emotion by using this chord and you can do these things,” but at the same time, I reject authority all the time. And that’s my biggest problem sometimes. It’s like, “Yeah, like, I don’t want to do the work.”

Donna: So what does actually doing the work mean to you on a personal level?

Andrew: Finishing the job. I think getting it across the finish line is one of the hardest things that any artist can do and also at the same time it’s the most freeing thing to do. The last step is just lifting your hands. Being like, “That’s it.”

Donna: Do you think it’s easier or harder in the construct of being in a group, or rather several groups?

Andrew: Yeah, I think that I’m constantly running. So I can make my own decisions and sometimes I don’t always put everybody’s input in front of me. And that’s like, not awesome. But at the same time, I really have a vision for my art, and I really have a way that I want to get to the point that I’m getting to. If we’re stepping in a room together with the intention of building something together from the ground up, that’s great, but if I’ve like already gotten 90% of the way there and I’m including you into this thing, I already have a pretty clear vision of what the finish line is going to sound like.

Donna: Right. Do you find that most people are fairly respectful of that process?

Andrew: Yeah, I think everybody’s extremely respectful of that. I think that people really want to help you get to that finish line. I think it’s Chris Rock who talks about how nobody’s going to help you move your broken down car that’s sitting in the middle of the street. Nobody’s going to help you move your car until you get out of your car and start pushing your car out of the street. And then when people see that you’re struggling and working hard to do that, then they’re going to get out of their car and they’re going to help you do the thing. I think I encounter a lot of great musicians and creatives that want to help me accomplish that goal. And you know, with all love that they give, I still want it a certain way.

Donna: Fabulous. And for those of you who are joining us tonight who are not familiar with some of your work, what is a band or several that you are super stoked to be collaborating with right now?

Andrew: Right now I’m pushing Swing Auditorium. That’s my main project right now. I’ve changed my name a lot of times, but I really want to stick with Swing Auditorium right now.

Donna: Does that have an origin?

Andrew: Yes. So the swing or Swing Auditorium is a venue that was in San Bernardino. And it is where Jimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin and The Rolling Stones started their first American tours. And anybody who is anybody at that time.

Donna: It was also the punk venue, right? It was like a heavy punk venue. I think in the 70s and 80s, right?

 Andrew: At one point, yes. The Ramones and Black Sabbath played on the same night and people booed off The Ramones. So they were a little too soft for the Sabbath fans. But yeah, it was like dirt inside, it was kind of gross. It’s really gnarly. It’s super huge. People describe it as a tin can with tinsel hanging down. I have a buddy I ran into on Monday who saw Jimi Hendrix there and left early because it was just feedback. And I was like “That’s the fucking point.” I could get it though, I understand.

Donna: Wow. Andrew, thank you so much. This was so cool. Everyone say thank you.

Andrew: Thank you, Donna. Thank you. Thanks for letting me come over.

Donna: Of course, you’re welcome over anytime.